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Leonardo

Dropping SLE and move on to SSE for good?

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Lately, I have been thinking about dropping SLE and only focus on SSE, because I realized what success my mod conversion to the consoles had.

 

Even the PC version has a little better exposure at Bethesda.net (check the links and see it for yourself) than here at AFK Mods, but the PC version has a long way to go before I would consider to only focusing on my mod(s) at Bethesda.net.

 

I think most modders today asks the same question I ask myself, so what would you do.  Dropping SLE and only mod SSE or mod both games?

 

 

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I'm not really surprised that the Bethesda.net download numbers would be better than here. We're not that well known and aren't looking to become a powerhouse (nobody could afford that here).

I myself am not really planning to keep supporting LE for much longer. It's getting to a point where mistakes are being made trying to maintain support for both LE and SSE at the same time. Plus it takes too much time over all. Besides, as you've noticed, more and more people are moving on to SSE for the stability and other improvements. You only really see it hotly debated on Reddit anymore. They're one of the last holdouts. Bethesda themselves has taken steps to make it difficult to even obtain LE at all now.

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2 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

I'm not really surprised that the Bethesda.net download numbers would be better than here. We're not that well known and aren't looking to become a powerhouse (nobody could afford that here).

I myself am not really planning to keep supporting LE for much longer. It's getting to a point where mistakes are being made trying to maintain support for both LE and SSE at the same time. Plus it takes too much time over all. Besides, as you've noticed, more and more people are moving on to SSE for the stability and other improvements. You only really see it hotly debated on Reddit anymore. They're one of the last holdouts. Bethesda themselves has taken steps to make it difficult to even obtain LE at all now.

You are?   Well, AFK Mods are well known for the unofficial game patches but that's about it.  Of course your mods is another reason why people even visit AFK Mods in the first place.

 

I know what you mean by that, I too made a mistake, a mistake a mod user reported a while back and I wasn't aware of it until the user mentioned it.

 

Also, like you said it takes too much time and I have already pulled down my mod at GHF and Wolflore due for *vasting* my time every time I updated my mod.

 

Really?  That's unusual for Bethesda to actaully take steps that prevents people from getting a copy of SLE.

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18 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

I'm not really surprised that the Bethesda.net download numbers would be better than here. We're not that well known and aren't looking to become a powerhouse (nobody could afford that here).

I myself am not really planning to keep supporting LE for much longer. It's getting to a point where mistakes are being made trying to maintain support for both LE and SSE at the same time. Plus it takes too much time over all. Besides, as you've noticed, more and more people are moving on to SSE for the stability and other improvements. You only really see it hotly debated on Reddit anymore. They're one of the last holdouts. Bethesda themselves has taken steps to make it difficult to even obtain LE at all now.

That's probably one of the smartest things you can do at this point.  

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The reason I started this thread is related to how much time I need to spend when updating my mod and that's something like this.

 

1.  Play SLE and check for new places that doesn't have a map marker yet, which is sometimes boring and a bit unstable with a couple of CTD's

2.  Adding new map markers in the CK (32-bit)

3.  Clean the mod in TES5Edit

4. Load the mod into CK 2 (64-bit) and convert it for SSE

5. Clean the mod in SSEEdit

6. Upload the mod to Bethesda.net for all platforms (PC, PS4, XB1)

 

I need to do that every time I update my mod and it is easy to make a mistake which I already have without knowning that I did.  It is a daunting process and I don't like it at all.

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Yep, that's part of why I don't want to keep at LE for much longer. I already have to do double the fix work on my stuff now because I'm maintaining 2 copies of everything. I can't just report the work each time either since I had to deal with a lot of the new ground clutter and river flow in my mods and having to redo that each time would be infeasible.

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What do you mean by saying "river flow"?  Is that new content in SSE in comparison to SLE?

24 minutes ago, Arthmoor said:

new ground clutter

We knew that Bethesda will adding that for SSE, but that also rise another question.

Does the modding community know what more "new" content (extra cells?, extended or reworked quests etc etc) there is in SSE, aside for what we already know and I refer to the video Bethesda made public last year?

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Any cell with water in it has likely been updated to contain new river flow data that needs to be accounted for or mods will cause water seams.

New ground clutter - mostly bushes and small plants, but some rocks and other stuff too. This is something house, village, and city modders need to pay the most attention to because the new stuff may end up conflicting with their changes and they'll need to move the stuff around a bit.

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I understand if you decided to drop SLE right now and move on to SSE for good.   Could these cells with water affect map markers?

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Well, not to sound like a psychologist or anything, but I would ask "Why are you modding Skyrim?"  The answer to that question may guide you to making the right choice for you.  For me, the answer to that question is "to improve my game. and share what I have created with other like minded individuals"  Most of the mods I have created are for personal use, and I have decided to share them with other people so those who have the same tastes in a modded game as I do can benefit from my work.  

So getting recognition or downloads is not really important to me personally, and in fact, I would prefer to stay somewhat under the radar because as soon as you start racking up hundreds of thousands of downloads, you have to deal with all the issues that entails with users not reading descriptions and posting all sorts of nonsense about your mods.  So far I have avoided all that drama with my mods and have only had positive feedback and constructive criticism.

For me, I have not modded SSE yet (although I gave permission for another modder to port all of my mods and upload them to Bethnet for all platforms).  The reason I only mod SLE is because I play Requiem, which is not going to be ported to SSE until there is a Skyproc patcher available for SSE, as well as SKSE and SkyUI.  Since my modding starts with personal use and I only play SLE (because of Requiem),  I have no current plans to mod SSE.  Eventually that may change.

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SKSe64 is now available (alpha, but Ian's alphas are usually better than Bethesda's finals) and the SkyUI team has now confirmed that will be officially ported by this weekend. So that's 2 down :P

I'm quite certain that Requiem alone is not going to keep the bulk of the community back in the 32 bit stone age for long.

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11 minutes ago, Arthmoor said:

I'm quite certain that Requiem alone is not going to keep the bulk of the community back in the 32 bit stone age for long.

It certainly won't keep the bulk of the community back in the 32 bit stone age but it will keep the bulk of the Requiem users there.  There is no other mod or combination of mods that do quite what Requiem does, and we will still need the sky proc patcher to get Requiem ported to SSE, but with two down, here's hoping for the third.  

That's okay if the community leaves the Requiem fanbase behind -- Requiem has always been a niche mod catering to the tastes of old school roleplayers.  It's understandable that people who don't use Requiem would prefer a more stable platform and would move on to SSE, although I have gotten my game to the point where crashes are pretty rare, maybe once every 10 to 20 hours of play.   But once Requiem makes the leap to SSE, so will I.  It is obviously a better platform overall.

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5 hours ago, Turija said:

Well, not to sound like a psychologist or anything, but I would ask "Why are you modding Skyrim?"  The answer to that question may guide you to making the right choice for you.  For me, the answer to that question is "to improve my game. and share what I have created with other like minded individuals"  Most of the mods I have created are for personal use, and I have decided to share them with other people so those who have the same tastes in a modded game as I do can benefit from my work.  

So getting recognition or downloads is not really important to me personally, and in fact, I would prefer to stay somewhat under the radar because as soon as you start racking up hundreds of thousands of downloads, you have to deal with all the issues that entails with users not reading descriptions and posting all sorts of nonsense about your mods.  So far I have avoided all that drama with my mods and have only had positive feedback and constructive criticism.

For me it all began with my frustration of not being able to fast travel to Windhelm Dock just to take the boat to Solstheim, instead I had to fast travel to Windhelm first then rush from the city gates through the city down to the Windhelm Dock.

The rest is history.  In contrast to you I didn't avoided the drama instead I uploaded my mod to Bethesda.net on the A Happy New Years eve then I waited for comments/feedback, which has so far been positive feedback plus a few reports about an issue.

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@Turija You might be interested to note that Mator's zEdit project is in the process of building a replacement for SkyProc. So that would be the 3rd hurdle down if that takes off.

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3 hours ago, Leonardo said:

For me it all began with my frustration of not being able to fast travel to Windhelm Dock just to take the boat to Solstheim, instead I had to fast travel to Windhelm first then rush from the city gates through the city down to the Windhelm Dock.

The rest is history.  In contrast to you I didn't avoided the drama instead I uploaded my mod to Bethesda.net on the A Happy New Years eve then I waited for comments/feedback, which has so far been positive feedback plus a few reports about an issue.

I am glad your experience on Bethnet has been positive.  At some point I will have to install the SSE CK and learn how to mod SSE.  I used to spend a fair bit of time at the old forum but really have not visited Bethnet much at all.

2 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

@Turija You might be interested to note that Mator's zEdit project is in the process of building a replacement for SkyProc. So that would be the 3rd hurdle down if that takes off.

That's great news.

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I'm sort of moving in the other direction.

The console users are certainly a larger number than the PC ones, but they have nothing to give back, not even being able to help diagnose any issues that arise, because they have no way to display quest variables etc. No LOOT, so their load orders are random, and so they get more problems from that. If you throw in the further issues of mods being pulled and the effect that has on running games, I'd say that Bethesda.net is to be avoided as a sink of your time.

So yes, my mods there have more downloads, but that's not the whole story.

For my own play, I can run SLE on three monitors (6000x1080) but the load with SSE is a bit too much. I've tuned down some of the excesses (turning DOF and lens flare off, for example) but that leaves it looking much like SLE. The stability of the 64-bit engine may sway me once SKSE64 settles down and all the mods I want to use are there too. So I play on both - and go back to Oblivion and Morrowind from time to time as well.

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You'd be surprised just how much the console crowd knows and what kind of support they're getting. Tarshana has a whole group dedicated to the task of not only helping them troubleshoot issues but to follow a general load order template. Sure, they don't have LOOT or access to the command console, but they CAN be taught how to work around these things much like those of us on PC had to for Morrowind and early Oblivion before our tools of convenience were born.

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I also want to mention that I haven't got a single *bad* comment and everyone has given me positive feedback plus a few requests.  Which I at this point only accepted one request.

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On 9/27/2017 at 2:49 AM, Leonardo said:

I also want to mention that I haven't got a single *bad* comment and everyone has given me positive feedback plus a few requests.  Which I at this point only accepted one request.

I got my first "bad" comment the other day, on an Oblivion mod of all things, but the guy was pretty polite about it at least -- still kind of annoying though since he was saying there was a problem with my mod ( a compatibility patch) that was actually caused by his own tinkering with my patch (he used Wrye Bash to change masters so he could use my patch with a master it wasn't designed for) that he didn't bother to even mention until we got into a discussion about it.  

 

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So some people tends to post *bad* comments for mods, regardless what game a mod is for, when playing the PC version in contrast to people who are playing the game on a console.

At least that's my impression I got when I remember how much people show appreciation for my first Skyrim mod.

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Please don't drop Skyrim Classic Edition support. Personally, I don't see myself using Special Edition for another couple of years. It just got SKSE support and that's still in alpha/testing (even when it becomes ready for public use, it's probably going to be another year or even more before the script reliant mods are ported from Classic  - if they get ported, alot of mods on the nexus are no longer supported). ENB support isn't complete for DX11 at this point (and SSE is DX11 only). This means that most ENBs for SSE can only do very simple things. Boris has not yet announced how far he will take DX11 support for SSE. Personally, I've spent over a hundred hours modding my classic Skyrim and I won't want to switch to the new one until it's got more of a solid modding ecosystem.

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The ecosystem is already in place. Alpha or not, people are using SKSE64 and SkyUI-SE right now without trouble. Mods that are still actively supported have already been ported, most of which requires no changes to their scripts to keep working. So nobody is going to need to wait another year. The exodus is already well underway right now.

You'll also find that ENB support is not really necessary with SSE either so it being limited is of no consequence and certainly isn't a reason to hold back on a 32 bit garbage engine.

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19 hours ago, thebunnyrules said:

Please don't drop Skyrim Classic Edition support.

 

It's understandable that authors who are moving on to SSE would drop their support for classic because its twice the work to maintain two versions of each mod.  I just hope they all don't take down their mods.  Giving them to the caretaker or just locking comments and posting a notice that the mod is  no longer supported would be a better option.   Nevertheless, I have been updating my catalog of unused mods just in case.  If I see something on Nexus that looks like I might want it someday, I just download it to my external hard drive for future reference.

For me, it is not an "either/or" proposition, so I will never "switch" to SE, but instead will play both LE and SE. 

I have spent a lot of time getting my current load order of probably about 200 or so mods, many of which are older Skyrim mods (or older versions of mods)  that have been manually merged or rewritten in various ways, and with my self-created conflict resolution patches, etc. my LE game rock solid stable at near 60 FPS everywhere except in certain towns and cities that have been edited by my own edited versions of ETAC and JK Lite, where the FPS sometimes drops into the mid 30s.  I can't remember exactly the last time my LE Skyrim crashed, it was at least a month ago, maybe longer and I have played probably close to 50 hours since then. 

Most of these mods I am using are older versions of mods that won't ever be ported and it would be a ton of work for me to port it all myself.  Given how well my LE game runs and the fact that it could never be duplicated in SE, at least not without a crapton of work by yours truly, I see no reason to get rid of it simply because a new and improved version of Skyrim is available. 

Instead, I will use SE as an exiting opportunity to make a whole new load order that may be quite different from what I am currently running, without abandoning  my LE load order.  I like the idea of having two versions of Skyrim on my PC, so I can switch between two very different load orders without having to worry about using different profiles.  It's more convenient to just have two different Skyrim installs that to switch profiles, and since I already have a really good load order going in LE, I am just going to keep it forever, right along side of SE and whatever mods I end up using in SE.

LE and SE are different games, after all and they can co-exist quite peacefully on the same hard drive.

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I don't know about anyone else, but I don't intend to take down any LE mods. I only intend to lock the comment threads at the start of 2018. People will still be able to get them but I will not be responding to inquiries, providing support, or granting permission to do anything with those files after that point.

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